Todd Friel vs Rob Bell
For those who read [not skim, skimming gets you nowhere, it is like sinning and by skimming you make Baby Jesus cry....] this daily, you get quite the treat, two post in one day. We can say that this is a make up for the lack of a post yesterday. But in truth it is because I came across something on the internet that lite a fire in my belly. Now I have been on this Rob Bell kick as of late. I am been watching the Nooma videos, and reading his book. I would have to say I agree with his stance on probably 95% of what he says. Today I came across a video by this guy named Todd Friel. It was in response to the Nooma video "Bullhorn Guy", which ironically enough was the first taste of Rob Bell I had and what got me on this kick. In Rob Bell's video, he talks about the ineffectiveness of the fire and brimstone approach to Christianity. He goes on to talk about how Love is were it is. The video is on myspace, I urge you to view it if you haven't before continuing to read.
So then Todd Friel made a video response to "Bullhorn Guy" called, "A Bullhorn Response". Again this is on Myspace and go watch it before you continue to read. Now "A Bullhorn Response" talks about how we need to have that fire and brimstone in our lives. We need to talk about sin and hell. I don't mean to be bias, so this is why you need to watch the video first, and this is a direct quote, but Todd said in an almost mocking manner that "They think that Jesus is love, and since Jesus showed people love, we should show people love, and the last thing we should be doing is going around condemning people or converting people." Like I said, direct quote. Now initially I was going to write this about how we all need to be different because God made us different and that some people are Rob Bell people and some people are Todd Friel people. But after listening/watching it again to get that quote, it threw some gas on that fire in my belly. That think is out right offensive to me as a Christian. You know what the real funny thing is, two verses were quoted over and over again to back up Todd. Romans 7:7 which states, "But I can hear you say 'If the law code was as bad as all that, it is no better then sin itself.' That's certainly not true. the law code had a more perfectly legitimate function. Without its clear guidelines for right and wrong, moral behavior would mostly be guest work. Apart from the succinct surgical command, "You shall not covet," I could have dressed covetousness up to look like a virtue and ruined my life with it." Also they used Galatians 3:24 "The Law was like those Greek tutors, with which you are familiar, who escort children to school and protect them from danger or distraction, making sure the children will really get to the place they set out for." [both from The Message] First off, I would just like to point out who wrote both of those passages, Paul. Lets see what Christ has to say about all this stuff about condemnation vs. love stuff. Matthew 7:1 "Judge not, that ye be not judge." [KJV so the conservatives can understand] Matthew 22 37-40: "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." [Again in KJV] Say it with me folks, you know it, Christ always trumps Paul. Always. Forever and ever amen. And what did Christ say, Love don't condemn. Honestly I could care less what Rob Bell has to say. Christ says to love, so apparently Love is all you need...
So then Todd Friel made a video response to "Bullhorn Guy" called, "A Bullhorn Response". Again this is on Myspace and go watch it before you continue to read. Now "A Bullhorn Response" talks about how we need to have that fire and brimstone in our lives. We need to talk about sin and hell. I don't mean to be bias, so this is why you need to watch the video first, and this is a direct quote, but Todd said in an almost mocking manner that "They think that Jesus is love, and since Jesus showed people love, we should show people love, and the last thing we should be doing is going around condemning people or converting people." Like I said, direct quote. Now initially I was going to write this about how we all need to be different because God made us different and that some people are Rob Bell people and some people are Todd Friel people. But after listening/watching it again to get that quote, it threw some gas on that fire in my belly. That think is out right offensive to me as a Christian. You know what the real funny thing is, two verses were quoted over and over again to back up Todd. Romans 7:7 which states, "But I can hear you say 'If the law code was as bad as all that, it is no better then sin itself.' That's certainly not true. the law code had a more perfectly legitimate function. Without its clear guidelines for right and wrong, moral behavior would mostly be guest work. Apart from the succinct surgical command, "You shall not covet," I could have dressed covetousness up to look like a virtue and ruined my life with it." Also they used Galatians 3:24 "The Law was like those Greek tutors, with which you are familiar, who escort children to school and protect them from danger or distraction, making sure the children will really get to the place they set out for." [both from The Message] First off, I would just like to point out who wrote both of those passages, Paul. Lets see what Christ has to say about all this stuff about condemnation vs. love stuff. Matthew 7:1 "Judge not, that ye be not judge." [KJV so the conservatives can understand] Matthew 22 37-40: "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." [Again in KJV] Say it with me folks, you know it, Christ always trumps Paul. Always. Forever and ever amen. And what did Christ say, Love don't condemn. Honestly I could care less what Rob Bell has to say. Christ says to love, so apparently Love is all you need...
posted by scuba at
3:24 PM
2 Comments:
Just a warning not to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Jesus Christ and His love is the cure for our cursed world. Sin is a fatal sickness and requires God's love for healing.
A large problem with the modern church is that we are forcing the cure without explaning the sickness.
Imagine a doctor walking down the street with a big syringe. He's offering people a cure. People will think he's crazy or evil and walk right on by. However, if someone first explained that terrorists had attacked the city with biological germ warfare, people would be lining up for that shot.
It is a grave mistake not to tell people about God's love and the warmness of the message of Jesus, but it is most certainly also a big mistake to not tell people WHY they need the love. Most people are quite happy with their lives. If we wait for a death in their family, an emtional break up, bad grades, or other crisis to lead people to Christ they are going to think that our faith is nothing but a "feel good drug" that is supposed to make you happy all of the time and make bad things stop.
The wise man builds his house upon the rocks and the foolish upon sand. The most important message of that parable is that the rain and the storms come to both houses. Too often in America Christians are told that their faith exists just to make them happy.
I was "raised" Christian and believed in God my whole life. However, for the longest time I didn't actually understand the Gospel. I didn't know what I had been saved from. I didn't think that I was a sinner.
He who has been forgiven much, loves much.
There is much secular love and happiness in this world. If our sales pitch for the faith is love and happiness, people won't give it a second thought.
How many times do you hear the "that's good for you, but it's just not for me."
That's because people ARE happy and comfortable as they are without God. The WORD of God makes people uncomfortable and rattles them to true reptence and then true faith.
Reading the Bible shouldn't usually make us feel good about ourselves, it aught to be a call to action, it aught to rile our anger to our own sin, it aught to put a burden on our souls for the lost.
"Judge not lest ye be judged" is probably the most misquoted verse in the entire Bible. Please examine the context of the verse and the purpose of the passage. That verse teaches and warns against HYPOCRITICAL judgement. It's a call to be judged as well and not to seek self righteousness through judging, because we are often guilty of the same sin. The Bible tells us to judge, just never by our own standard (always use God's) and to judge ourselves first.
"The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment." (Psa 37:30)
"With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth." (Psa 119:13)
"Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy." (Prov 31:9)
Jesus commended Simon, "Thou hast rightly judged." (Luke 7:43)
"Now, thou son of man, wilt thou judge, wilt thou judge the bloody city? yea, thou shalt show her all her abominations." (Ezek 22:2)
"But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." (1 Cor 2:15)
"Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?" (1 Cor 6:2)
"Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?" (1 Cor 6:3)
Again, keep all of this in light of 1st Corinthians 13:
1 Corinthians 13
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
How can you love someone who is on the path of destruction and not tell them that their sins are leading them unto death? If all you do is love them, they might think that you are approving of their sins. You might enable them. If someone you love is standing on a highway and is about to get hit by a truck you would have to warn them. Not warning someone of comming death is the same as not loving them.
By
Anonymous, At
11:26 PM
I'm not sure why exactly, but I was reading over your posts again:
It saddens me to think that you believe that Christ and Paul's writings are ever at odds.
The very notion that you have to believe that Christ's view always trumps Paul's view means that you believe that part of the New Testament is contrary to the teachings of Christ. Do you not see how sad that is?
You conclude from Jesus' teachings that "love is all you need." Have you never been admonished by a wiser person than you? Have you never felt the sting of a rebuke? Have you never been knocked down a peg or two?
I think you are saying that Rob Bell preaches love and Todd Friel doesn’t.
I have been admonished by an older wiser person and I am infinitely better for it. I think that Todd Friel knows of love that is so much more important than sunshine and rainbows.
I have experienced immeasurable love from people when they have told me to my face that I was wrong. That my beliefs were not good enough. That this ingrained and harmless habit of mine was sinful.
I thank God every day that someone had enough love for me to call me sinful.
The pastors and the preachers who reminded me to be a moral person, the teachers who taught me to be generous, the Bible study leaders lead an example of kindness never loved me as much as the person who told me that I was a spiritual whore (teaching out of Ezekiel 16). When I was taught that I treat the sacrifice of Christ as common and trample God underfoot with my sin I learned what love really is.
God loves me just the way I am, but He loves me so much He wouldn't dare let me stay that way.
To truly love someone is to be committed to their growth in godliness. True love loves the person more than the relationship and will risk their opinion of you so that you may speak the words of life to them.
Christ and Paul speak with one voice on that.
By
Anonymous, At
11:24 PM
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